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Wednesday, May 03, 2006

Fusion Beats Camry (!!!)

In a startling win for the "home team" (Detroit), the Detroit News auto reviewers Anita and Paul Lienert did a head-to-head review of the Ford Fusion vs the Toyota Camry, and picked the Fusion.

The trick was that the two cars reviewed had close to the same sticker price, which meant that the Fusion had a V6 but the Camry was stuck with its base I4. With the extra power, tighter ride, and better interior at the price point, the Fusion won handily.

You can read the whole thing here.

19 comments:

Arkay said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Arkay said...

I agree with their review. I can't believe $24,000 Camry comes with very little. I went to a Toyota Dealership in Dallas. Vehicles were very expensive. The story was the same with the RAV4. The RAV4 limited had fewer options than its competitors, yet it was sticker at $29,000 without leather seats. They were also charging FJ Cruiser for $28,000 to $31,000 when it was suppose to start at $22,000. By the way, there is an autoweek article about sub par new Toyota Avalon quality.

I think Toyota has some work to do. Their 2007 – 2010 vehicle line might be in trouble. Price and quality issues might give them trouble.

1. Over priced Camry without that Camry quality that people expect
2. Over priced RAV4. It is no longer sports-ute at $29,000. It is selling well but doesn’t this vehicle essentially competes with its own High Lander?
3. Avalon has quality issue, a vehicle that cost more than $30K on average.

Toyota, now simply cost way too much. I think people pay premium for Toyota quality.

New Saturn models look good and are equipped well. DCX models are pretty attractive. Whole Dodge line up looks really good. Hyundai is catching up to Toyota really fast. Fully loaded Sonata LX (can) cost $22,000. I know it’s not Camry but it is very close. In fact, Sonata beat Fusion in many comparison tests. There are Azera, Santa Fe, and Elantra. They are all competitive and will cost at least $3000 to $6000 less than Honda/Toyota vehicles.

If Honda can come up with Better looking accord, we could see a flip year where Honda becoming 1 and Camry becoming 2.

Anonymous said...

IF YOU ARE GOING TO COMPARE THE VEHICLES YOU SHOULD AT LEAST USE ACURATE INFORMATION. FROM A PRICE POINT OF VIEW. WHAT FORD CHARGES FOR THE EXTRA SAFETY FEATURES ARE STANDARD ON THE CAMRY, SO WHEN YOU AD THE EXTRA OPTIONS TO THE FUSION WOULDNT THAT MAKE THE FUSION MORE EXPENSIVE THAN THE CAMRY. THERE IS NO COMPARISON. LE CAMRY SELL FOR AROUND 21-23K DEPENDING ON THE EQUIPMENT.

AND FOR THE K.O.
RESELL VALUE!!!!

GO ONLINE AND COMPARE ANY FORD TO ANY TOYOTA AVERAGE OF 3-5K LESS FOR FORD THAN TOYOTA.

WHAT ABOUT THE 100K MILES SEGMENT. PRICE A 110K MILE TOYOTA TO FORD. THERE AREN'T MANY FORDS THAT LAST OVER 100k MILES. IF YOU DO FIND ONE IT RUNS LIKE GARBAGE. I WORK IN A DEALERSHIP I SEE THE DIFFERENCE.

PEOPLE NEED TO CHECK THIS OUT FOR THEMSELVES AND THEY WILL SEE THAT THIS ARTICLE WAS COACHED. LOL!!!!

AD-
VA

Arkay said...

Resale value is a wash.

Fusion comes with all the safety equipment. Did you not read the article? They tested was SEL model. The price for SEL is $20,860 according to Ford.com as of 05/04/2006. You can add “Safety Security Package” for $595. I mean, you can add all their options, and it will come at $24,945.

Go to Toyota.com and build your Camry. V6 LE starts at $23,675. I added Option Package D, CD Changer, leather, moon roof, night mirror, and traction control. Now, the price is at $29,620. That’s about $5,000 more than similarly equipped Fusion. But even at this price, Fusion had more equipment like heated front seats, 17” wheel, heated mirror, dual exhaust, and many others. By the way, when you go to Toyota dealership, the price you get from online isn’t the price you pay at the dealership. Toyota dealership likes to add about thousand or two more on their vehicles with stripes and other dealer only items.

You say, Camry has better resale value.

So, Fusion will have 43% resale value after 4 years and Camry will have 53% resale value.
Camry: 29,620 * .53 = 15,698.6
Fusion 24,945 * .43 = 10,726.35

Difference = 15698.6-10,726.35 = 4972.25
Original difference on price 29620-24945 = 4675

Total Cash outlay of 48 months at 4.9% financed:
Camry 29,620 @ 4.9% for 48 months = $680.79 a month, total payment of 32,677.92
Fusion 24945 @ 4.9% for 48 months = $573.34 a month, total payment of 27,520.32
Payment difference = 5,157.6

(By the way, Ford has better financing option than Toyota, often lower than 4.9%. I am just using 4.9% figure to make a point)

On financing, Camry paid more by 5157.6-4675 = 482.x
For the resale value, Camry retained = 297 more

So, the difference = -184.75.

You would have paid more for Camry than Fusion. That’s still the Camry that was less equipped than Fusion. Even if the resale value percentage was little off, the point is that it won’t make that much difference to the -184.75 that I came up with.

Besides, buying a car isn’t all about money. It’s also about experience. Would I want to drive stripped down Camry V4 for $25,000 or fully loaded Fusion for $25,000. Recent quality problems with Toyota don’t make want to jump on to Camry. If our decision was made purely on price, we’ll be driving Echos or Aveos.

Camry LE barely sells for $21K to $23K. I went to the dealerships. Most Camry LE comes around about $24K. You add few options, it’s at $25,000. That’s without leather or anything. It’s nearly emptied Camry.

If you are still the “resale value” queen after this, MAYBE I SHOULD TYPE EVERYTHING IN CAPS?

Kevin said...

Gimme a break. The Fusion is UGLY. Actually it's almost OK, looking at the sides and back ... But in the end Ford came through and managed to uglify the front so as to make the car fairly appalling.

The picture in the newspaper is telling. Just look at those two vehicles facing each other. Toyota looks cool, low, like a grinning cat about to pounce. The Fusion looks like a squashed beer can.

Arkay said...

Kevin, that's your opinion. I think Fusion is quiet refreshing. Most car looks like every other car, specially in midsize segment. I know a lot of people thinks Fusion is a good looking car. It's better than Camry for sure. It has more edgy design, Not non-offensive design.

I think Camry looks better than the older model but I wouldn't call it refreshing or cool. Some people may think that it's cool but I don't think it's cool. If that's cool, then how are every other car that looks better than Camry. Would they be "cooler" than "cool." Is "cool" equals to medium.

chuck said...

This sure is good news for Ford with all their attempts at trying to maintain their status like Bold Moves. After all, the company has been experiencing some lows in sales. This kind of review sure could help them bring their numbers up.

Anonymous said...

I THINK TOYOTA'S ARE GREAT CARS, BUT IN THIS CASE I RATHER THE FUSION ANY DAY... AS FAR AS RESALE VALUE, GIVE IT A FEW YEARS AND PERHAPS THE FUSION WILL WIN IN THAT SEGMENT ASWELL - I DO THINK TOYOTA NEEDS TO MAKE THIER DESIGNS MORE EDGIE!

Anonymous said...

It's darn hiliarious for you out there who thinks Ford can beat Toyota. First of all, all there vehicles haven't had a new platform design in years and the ones that do, they just borrow it from other companies like Mazada. Plus have you driven a Ford over 100k, these cars were not meant to last I dear say. If your love is still with Ford because it stands for America, go talk to the thousands of employees who are or will be laid off due to plant closures. Instead of strengthening the American economy Ford has opted to help our neighbor Mexico. And don't even start with the cheaper labor in Japan. Have you read and seen how many new auto plants our Asain brethren our opening. I guess all those Ex-Ford employees are sending their resumes to Toyota and also switching brands. Face it Ford is going down for the count.

Anonymous said...

People need to do a little more homework on a Camry before reading such a ford-biased article out of Ford's home town of Detroit. *No one* favors a Toyota in that city. Come to Los Angeles where the largest car market in the world is located and you will find out quickly the difference between a Camry and a Fusion.

1. Camry XLE V6 has a *Base MSRP* of $28,100. Standard features includd a 268hp V6 and a 6-speed automatic that gets 31mpg. That absolutely smokes the 20 year old 3.0 V6 w/ 220hp the Fusion has, which is just a modified Taurus engine. We all know how dependable *that* motor was. The Camry XLE V6 comes standard with Leather, Moonroof, dual zone climate control, bluetooth for your cell, 6-disc in dash cd w/ a 400watt stereo, dual power seats, dual front airbags, side and curtain airbags as well as a driver's knee airbag. Add the heated seats for MSRP $28,540. Rear air vents? Standard, as well as a rear sunscreen not even offered on the fusion. Did I mention the back seats *recline?* A/C, radio, phone controls are all on the steering wheel, too, and the new plasma cluster has ionic-breeze like technology to keep your car from being stinky. You can adjust *all* the headrests on a Camry, the fusion has fixed rests in the rear, as well as reading lights for the folks in the back seat. There's also Homelink, which you can program 3 different remotes into for your garage/etc., as well as a *standard* security system, something I didn't include in the pricing of the Fusion below.

2. Fusion with comparable equipment has an MSRP of $26,350. This amounts to a $2,200 difference between the two.

Factory warranty on a Ford? 3/36 bumper to bumper, that's it.

On a Toyota? 3/36 bumper-bumper, *plus* 5/60,000 mile powertrain warranty to cover the engine, transmission, and other powertrain stuff that likes to go bad on Fords around 50,000 miles. Expect to pay at *least* $2,000 for the extended warranty you'll be buying for a Fusion.

As for the resale value comparison?

Ask yourselves. If you were buying a car with 100,000 miles, would you buy the Ford or the Toyota? Obvious answer is the Toyota. Now, would you pay more for the Toyota with 100,000 miles? Another simple answer is yes. How much more, of course, depends, but you get the point.

Compare apples to apples, Detroit. Otherwise *anyone* can tip the scales in their favor.

Anonymous said...

To add to my previous comment, the MSRP and equipment listings came from a 3rd party source, CarsDirect.com, this avoids any factory bias between the vehicles, as vehicles are marketed w/ Base MSRPs that do not necessarily reflect real-world pricing.

If you are going to review a top-of-the-line fusion you *don't* compare it to an entry level camry (LE). SEL Fusion=XLE Camry for comparitive purposes.

Patrick said...

As a Michigander, it is good to see Ford putting out better vehicles. But comeon, the Fusion does not beat the Camry. Ford has a history of decent vehicles, Toyota has a history of great vehicles with excellent reliability.
I have a 2002 Camry LE and right now I have 111,500 miles on it. No mechanical problems so far, the only things I fix on it are brakes, oil changes, and tires as the miles roll on by.
The only question Camry owners have to worry about is whether to give their car to their kids or their grandkids...

Anonymous said...

You people who are putting Ford down are pissing me off. Ford is simply the best vehicle out there. Toyota, especially in recent years, have bad reliability. Ford has always had excellent reliability. I currently have a 2000 Ford F-150 with almost 250,000 miles. No mechanical problems. None. My sister has a 2002 Toyota Camry. It has only 100,000 miles on it and she has had problem after problem with it. Face it: Toyota is not as good as Ford.

Anonymous said...

I have worked many years in Ford Motor Company related systems, and what me and my partners always say is: " We would never buy a Ford" and the reason is simple: QUALITY. For many years Ford leaders did not put a lot of effort on customers needs, they always focus in fixing internal problems with a lot of people close to retire and cost reduction programs.
The result was a decade of poor customers satisfaction and a lot of losses. They are now trying to overcome the situation and fix their internal problems, but they are still way far from Toyota level.
If you want to support America companies then, buy a Ford, but if you want the best car, then buy a Toyota.

Anonymous said...

As a current owner of both Toyota Camry and Ford vehicles, I can tell you that while in the past, sure, Toyota may have passed Ford on longevity (even though my first 2 vehicles were Ford pickups with over 150000 miles and no issues). But don't let past quality cloud your decisions. Just look at the current ratings over and over (J.D. Power, Motor Trend, etc. for example). Toyota has let themselves slip in the past few years and Ford has edged by them. Even after the cuts, Ford still employs 3 times as many U.S. workers as Toyota (110,000)and 20 local assembly plants compared to Toyota's 8. Learning from your mistakes is good. Thinking you are good enough to let things pass by - not so good.

Ford truck accessories said...

Hey Maverick430, Get a life pal! You and your *** car loving buddies are the main reason the American auto industry is in the shape it is in. Ford is a solid ride. I have owned nothing but. Kept almost every one of them well over 200k and bought another one. The only thing I did was MAINTENANCE. Something that people like you don't do on a regular basis, and when something breaks it is automatically Ford's fault or GM's fault that they didn't engineer a vehicle that you can just drive without even changing the oil. And if you read Consumer Reports, which I don't believe you ever have, they have said countless times, that Ford has shown the most improvement out of all the American companies and their quality is just as good as toyrota and honda. So before you start with your "driver returned on foot" crap get the facts pal! And furthermore the only Fords that you have probably ever owned is a 80's Tempo or an early 90's Taurus. If you like the *** cars so much go live in Japan.

shane said...

first of all, tell the caps lock guy to calm down. I didn't know rush limbaugh did car reviews??? easy killer...we get your point.

So it appears the camry has one leg left to stand on from reading along....longevity.

The whole high mileage thing is funny to "me"....My 97 F150 has 148k miles, My 98 Contour SVT has 198k miles, My 96 Thunderbird has 91k on the clock. I can't say much for the wifes 08 edge because it's reasonably new w/ 30k miles. Of course there are brakes and oil changes, but no engine or tranny maintenance yet. Even the original cluth on the contour. These are "old" pushrod motors(aside from the contour) for the most part which are known not to last for 200k.
All my vehicles run and drive great..and aside from commuting, who wants to own a car for over 200k??? I guess i'm high maintenance. I sold my 01 focus w/ 158k and didn't seem to have a resale problem...even w/ a econobox...I just wanted something new, like my 06 king ranch F350
:-D Geez i hope she last 200k.....gimmie a break???

Why so many fords? I'm not brand loyal, but i've been working on various mfg. vehicles for about 15yrs now and fords were always easiest to work on. YOUR CAR WILL BREAK, sooner or later. So before you run your mouth about "my car doesn't break down so i don't have to work on it"...hush Most of you i'm sure go to a mechanic anyway. I don't trust any of them...just can't do it.

Camry is a great car, but the ones i've seen/driven are so basic and unamusing to drive. I even enjoyed my econobox focus more...the interior actually had some curves.
I want my drive, whether it's 5 mins or 5 hrs to be an experience.
Camry, practical?? All day long!
Fusion, experience. ALL DAY LONG.
It will most likely be my next car unless I do something silly like get a 5.0

The good news is even if you do buy a camry, it's not like you're buying a pile of trash. You will most likely be happier w/ the car. But do yourself a favor and drive all the similar manufactures as well.

aadi said...

Ford uses its Lincoln and Mercury brand for more upscale models, and the Fusion Hybrid gets a sister in the Milan Hybrid, but we didn't feel the cabin of the Fusion Hybrid lacked for luxury. Leather seats and a leather-wrapped steering wheel enhanced this feeling, but quality fit and finish anchored it. There are plastics on dash and doors, but they are the soft kind.
Ford Fusion Reviews

Anonymous said...

I drive Toyotas. Have since 1987. I've also had several Ford trucks for business through that period. Although I like what Ford is doing and cheer them on, they still have a long way to go before I buy a Ford again.

On another note, I have a hard time seriously considering people's opinions when they can't find the caps lock to turn it off or can't spell.