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Monday, March 27, 2006

Immigration [Politics]

There are two major problems with the U.S. lack of enforcement of immigration laws, and neither one is terrorism, in my opinion. The U.S. is such a large country that terrorists could probably sneak in even with tightly controlled borders.

The first problem is wage economics. By having too many illegal immigrants here, doing our lawn mowing, babysitting, and other "low end" jobs, wages for unskilled labor are depressed. As a result, uneducated and unskilled American citizens are squeezed out of the low end job market. And what are they supposed to do? Not everyone has the capability to be a software engineer, or even an auto mechanic. Are inexperienced, disabled, recovering, or uneducated folks all supposed to join the Army? Sit on welfare? The excuse that the illegals are doing jobs that Americans "won't do" is dishonest--the truth is, American's won't do dirty, hard jobs for cheap. And the folks in sunny Southern California really like cheap nannies and cheap gardeners.

The second big problem I have with our current policy is more philosophical. Isn't it bad government to have numerous laws on the books, which are not enforced because certain constituencies scream and throw money around? Why can't we have an honest debate, make a decision, and stick to it? Either we enforce illegal immigrant labor laws, or we wipe them off the books. We have a process--why should people who get in the back door get away with it? Selectively enforced laws can be easily abused by the government to punish political enemies unfairly.

I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle, between the lock-down crowd and the open-borders crowd. We should allow a guest worker program to support labor intensive businesses like agriculture, but we should control it carefully to keep wages such that Americans have low-end jobs if they need them. We should build fences where needed to prevent coyotes from smuggling people into the country. And we should come down, hard, on businesses that hire illegal immigrants. Unfortunately, a national I.D. card is a bad idea whose time has come.

17 comments:

Anonymous said...

Actually, cheap labor also affects higher end work. First it depresses the higher wages because substitution of cheap armies of labor are viable substitutes for some skilled labor. Further, cheap labor depresses the need to automate and improve efficiency decreasing the need for engineers to design tools and processes for labor intensive industries. e.g. cheap labor basically destroyed the agricultural tool industry.

sh said...

Looking ahead:
Jesse Jackson and the SEIU have fought for and achieved $20.00 an hour wages for janitors.

Automotive workers are basically unskilled, earning the incredible benefits and destroying Detroit.

Al Gore is now carrying the torch as an advocate of middle-class wages for hotel workers.

It has been determined and reported that Spanish-speaking DJs and the labor unions are organizing these protests, at least in the LA area, both in the "popularity" business.

Protestor in Dallas carrying an American flag, "My heart is with the Mexican flag and Mexico..." (fine, go back)

Typical comments as reported by the Dallas Morning News:

- We work hard.
- We do jobs no one else wants.
- We want an education.

Heard 'em all. None of them are reasons to allow law breakers to take jobs from those who come here and play by the rules.

Anonymous said...

Regardless of what's done, illegal immigrants are going to enter the country so long as they can earn so much more here than there. And so long as some business owner realizes he can make more by hiring illegal immigrants, he will do so.

We're all talking about band-aids to the problem, but until Mexico (and other countries) improve themselves there's not going to be much change. It may be in our best interest to help that happen.

Ironically, Mexico is quite cruel to the illegal immigrants coming in from its southern border (where the people are even more desperate, obviously).

Case solved said...

I think you are right Auto Prophet. Your first point about about the uneducated and unskilled pretty much describes 96% of all American public high school graduates. So all these illegals are not helping them any. We need school vouchers and enforce our immigration laws. The problems of immigration are very noticable in border cities were wages are low and property values high, fueling the dynamic of illegal workers and crime. The military definately benefits from these conditions as our unskilled and uneducated youth follow their slick ad campaigns to escape to a better future?

sh said...

The military definately benefits from these conditions as our unskilled and uneducated youth follow their slick ad campaigns to escape to a better future?

Amazing, I didn't know that. I'd always heard that people who serve their country were to be held in honor.

Additionally, I have it under pretty good authority that non-U.S. residents who serve in the military are "fast-tracked" if they want to become citizens.

That and education benefits: I understand that some of the "unskilled and uneducated" have obtained college degrees, and some of them going on to six-figure incomes immediately after completing their service obligation (using their management skills learned there to pad their sorry resume').

My, my, it's terrible how these rumors get circulated, isn't it "case solved."

case solved said said...

Well obviously you have never served or you would not be so deluded Sh said.. "I understand that some of the "unskilled and uneducated" have obtained college degrees, and some of them going on to six-figure incomes immediately after completing their service obligation (using their management skills learned there to pad their sorry resume').

Try "a few" She said, that will make six figure incomes, and after they retire. Hardly anybody is going to score a six figure job upon returning to civilian life, so much for your "good authority". I am not denying you can't be more upwardly mobile after serving my point is a lot of people join up to escape circumstances like poverty, being unskilled ie.. "low wages" that illegal immigration reinforces. The military is what you make of it and a whole lot of "people" do not make much of it after serving.
This just proves our educational system is a complete failure as again the government steps in, in the form of recruiting youth as it (the government) did such a crappy job of educating them during their K - 12 years. That's why I mentioned school vouchers which are working in other countries.
And another point "non-residents/citizens" are not serving in the military just try taking one of those illegals to get a physical. I did not "dishonor" those who serve by pointing out these societal patterns they are just the fact's Maam.

sh said...

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jul2005/20050729_2266.html

BAGRAM AIR BASE, Afghanistan, July 29, 2005 – Twenty-three servicemembers serving in Afghanistan became U.S. citizens July 28 at a naturalization ceremony at the Enduring Freedom Chapel here.

"I put my paperwork in about four months ago, right before I deployed," said Army Pfc. Juan Aguilar, a gunner assigned to B Company, 2nd Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment. "I'm excited to now be a citizen of the country I've been serving as a soldier." Aguilar, who is from Bogotá, Columbia, lives in Gastonia, N.C. He said that becoming a citizen happened sooner than he expected.

Richard B. Norland, deputy chief of mission at the American Embassyin the Afghan capital of Kabul, was the keynote speaker at the naturalization ceremony and congratulated the new American citizens.

"All those who are becoming American citizens today, we are enriched by your contributions to the American story," said Norland. "You make me feel very proud to be here with you." Maj. Gen. Jason Kamiya, commander of Combined Joint Task Force 76, also expressed his gratitude to the new citizens and commented on their service to the country they now can call their own.

"It should be noted that you were willing to fight and die for the United States of America, where you were not a citizen of," said Kamiya. "It is a pleasure to be able to serve you who have so unselfishly served America." Army Spc. Gloria Sarbo, Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 173rd Separates Battalion, is originally from Leon, Nicaragua, but now lives in Miami. She said her citizenship will allow her to stay in the United States with her family. "All of us are proud to take this oath of allegiance," she said. "Most of us have been living in the U.S. for awhile, we are all serving our country, and we consider ourselves Americans," she added.

I can find more if you would like.

---
Odd, the liberal mindset.

A person make a conscious decision to prove him/herself in a practical endeavor, earns his/her education, and he/she is:

- a "victim of societal pattern"

Is that like:
- a "tool of the man"
- waste via the "military-industrial complex"

- yet school vouchers, another level of bureaucracy and the Sylvan Center will defin[strike]a[/strike]etely save them from themselves.

"The military is what you make of it and a whole lot of "people" do not make much of it after serving.
This just proves our educational system is a complete failure..."


Wow, cows may come and cows may go, but the bull goes on forever! How on earth do you equate military service with the failure of the educational system, Einstein?

BTW, I'm not a Ma'am, sugar.

case solved said...

" I am not a Ma'am, sugar?" Yikes!!! And you call me a liberal? I thought the liberals were the hypocrites:)I guess not. And BTW if it's so great why don't you sign up MR? SH said/IT said whatever, then we can get down down to a rational discussion. As it is you'll just keep bloviating your "patriotism" that's been fed you and where all the bs comes really from. Ms/Mr? knows all about the military and has never served.

Anonymous said...

Odd the stuck on stupid mindset

The Auto Prophet said...

I'm delighted at the outbreak of controversy in my blog comments, it means I have a few readers!

My original post never intended to imply that there was anyting wrong with serving in the military, even if the motive is to escape poverty. I hold our military in very high regard, and I would have probably served myself it it wasn't for my poor eyesight and other medical problems.

sh said...

AP -

I never thought that's what you meant.

Mostly pulling Mr Solution's chain. Note he didn't answer just how he equates school vouchers and the failure of the public school system with military service.

Fact is, the military is how I got my six-figure job (after 24 years service) "a few days" (20 years actually) after leaving my birth home - a one room tar paper shack with a kerosene heater. I'm not ashamed of it.


A couple of military guy's contributions:

http://chiefwiggles.com/
http://theshapeofdays.com/2006/03/war_kids_relief.html

Example of military/patriotism haters contribution:
http://nobravery.cf.huffingtonpost.com/

Case solved said...

AP-
This conversation spun-off your immigration piece and my comments about the military that pulled this stiffs chain. Sh is the one in denial (not the river in egypt)
that a motive to join the military could be to escape poverty and that the military capitalizes on it, even though it sounds like that's just what he did (hypocrisy?). Born in a tar paper shack then won the lottery then decided to join the military because he was bored. Notice how he got his six-figure job-after 24 years service, just like I said in my previous blog.Your just another government stiff who scored a good job out of retirement Gee.. could it possibly be a private sector company with alot of government contracts? (probably aerospace) or maybe another 10 - 20 more years at the public trough in civil service. And why don't you be honest about how few of your fellow servicemen
back home don't have all these "six-figure jobs". I'm not even going to try to keep connecting the dots for you. There is no use considering your back ground, they brainwashed you well. Mr. Conservative/big government oxy-moron.

sh said...

According to the "liberal Economic Policy Institute," it's a good thing to keep illegals down.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/02/weekinreview/02broder.html?_r=1&ex=1301630400&en=f22bbc89ce8c12ac&a&oref=slogin

While Mr. Bernstein would agree that the least-educated American workers are at a disadvantage, he does not favor curbs on immigration. Even the least-skilled Americans benefit from the presence of a large pool of immigrant workers, Mr. Bernstein said. He said that the 11 million illegal immigrants are consumers, too, creating demand for goods and services and the jobs they produce. He also said their willingness to work at low wages helps keep inflation in check, benefiting the nation as a whole.

Guess we'll just have to wait until they all hit the lottery.

http://www.hispanicvista.com/HVC/Dialogue/Letters_to_Editor/031405Letters.htm

Juan Salazar was a prosperous contractor/builder with a young wife, ten children, two homes and two cars. When his eldest son was deported to Mexico, he went to visit to help him settle considering the son was Mexican American and wound
up not being allowed to return to his family in San Antonio. This had dire consequences for the wife and family. In the end the wife,
my grandmother died soon of heart failure/depression over the lost of the household breadwinner, her husband. That left 10 bright American children of Mexican origin alone orphaned. Fortunately, for them my father's aunt, my Nana and her husband took in all of them and a couple more. Most of the sons, four of them signed up and fought proudly for the United States filled with pride in being an American. Not knowing in their youthful ignorance that it was the same country that destroyed their family in the worst of times, the
great depression.


Yeah, Mr. Solution, it would've been much better for them to live their lives with a chip on their shoulder like yours and merely accept their destiny as societal pattern misfits.


(BTW: Your just another government stiff - That's "You're" not "Your" - my government stiff is none of your business.)

case solved said...

"More" or is that "your" straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel now eh? Just keep arguing like the typical government stiff, it might enlighten a few people.

case solved said...

You can have the last word now like the typical woman Sh..

sh said...

Have a nice day, dear. Don't forget your lunch money...

Anonymous said...

Last time I checked my HIStory book anyone not Native American is an illegal immigrant.
How can you hold charge and authority over land that was stolen and does not belong to you?